BANG KRISLAM
2006-01-11 14:25:41 UTC
Questions for Catholics and Orthodox:
1.. If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible, being
infallible, then why did Rome reject or question the inspiration of James
and Hebrews , then later accept it? Conversely, Rome accepted as scripture
books that were later rejected. If the Catholic church really is illuminated
by the Holy Spirit so that men can trust her as "God's organization", why
was she so wrong about something so simple? Should not the "Holy See" have
known?
2.. If the Orthodox church gave the world the Bible, being infallible,
then why did the eastern churches reject or question the inspiration of
Revelation, then later accept it? Conversely, the east accepted as scripture
books that were later rejected. If the Orthodox church really is illuminated
by the Holy Spirit so that men can trust her as "God's organization", why
was she so wrong about something so simple?
3.. If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible in 397 AD, then
why did many different versions of canons continue to circulate long
afterwards?
4.. If the Roman Catholic church gave us the Bible, why were the two
synods of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage, (397 AD) African councils, and not
initiatives of Rome?
5.. Since the synod Carthage in 393 AD stated, "But let Church beyond sea
(Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon", does this not prove that
Rome had no direct input or initiative in determining the canon.
6.. Since the two synods of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage, (397 AD) were
under the control of what would later become the "orthodox church", how can
the Roman Catholic church claim they determined the Canon? Would not such a
claim be more naturally due the Eastern Orthodox church?
7.. If the Catholic church, "by her own inherent God given power and
authority" gave the world the Bible, why did she not get it right the first
time? Why did the Roman Catholic church wait until 1546 AD in the Council of
Trent, to officially add the Apocrypha to the Canon?
8.. Both Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox church leaders make the
identical claim that they gave the world the Bible. If both the Roman
Catholic and Orthodox churches make the same claim they gave the world the
Bible, why do they have different books in each of their Bibles? Whose
"church authority" shall we believe? Whose tradition is the one we should
follow?
9.. Provide a single example of a doctrine that originates from an oral
Apostolic Tradition that the Bible is silent about? Provide proof that this
doctrinal tradition is apostolic in origin.
10.. Provide a single example of where inspired apostolic "oral
revelation" (tradition) differed from "written" (scripture)?
11.. If you are not permitted to engage in private interpretation of the
Bible, how do you know which "apostolic tradition" is correct between the
Roman Catholic, the Orthodox and the Watchtower churches, for all three
teach the organization alone can interpret scripture correctly, to the
exclusion of individual?
12.. Why did God fail to provide an inspired and infallible list of Old
Testament books to Israel? Why would God suddenly provide such a list only
after Israel was destroyed in 70 AD?
13.. How could the Jews know that books of Kings or Isaiah were Scripture?
14.. If the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches both believes that the
scripture: "the church is the pillar and foundation of truth" means the
church is protected from error then: a. Why do they teach doctrine so
different that they are not even in communion with each other? b. How do you
account for the vast number of documented theological errors made by the
pope and the church in general?
15.. If the both the Orthodox and Catholic churches follow apostolic oral
tradition exactly, how come they teach doctrine so different, that they are
not even in communion with each other?
16.. Both Tertullian and Jerome gave a list of oral traditions that were
not found in the Bible. (Tertullian, The crown or De Corona, ch 3-4),
(Jerome, Dialogue Against the Luciferians, 8) Tertullian said of these
practices that "without any written instrument, we maintain on the ground of
tradition alone". These include, baptizing by immersion three times, giving
the one baptized a "drink of milk and honey" then forbidding the person from
taking a bath for a week, kneeling in Sunday mass was forbidden, and the
sign of the cross was to be made on the forehead. Jerome, echoing
Tertullian, said that these "observances of the Churches, which are due to
tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law". Why does the
Catholic church not immerse thrice and allow kneeling? Why do both the Roman
Catholic and Orthodox churches not keep any of these traditions, with the
exception of thrice immersion by the Orthodox? Why do Roman Catholic
churches today have knelling rails in front of every pew? If the "apostolic
tradition" was to make the sign of the cross on the forehead, why do both
Orthodox and Catholic churches change this to the current practice of the
sign on the chest and head? If extra-biblical oral tradition is to be
followed, then why don't the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches practice
all of these things?
1.. If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible, being
infallible, then why did Rome reject or question the inspiration of James
and Hebrews , then later accept it? Conversely, Rome accepted as scripture
books that were later rejected. If the Catholic church really is illuminated
by the Holy Spirit so that men can trust her as "God's organization", why
was she so wrong about something so simple? Should not the "Holy See" have
known?
2.. If the Orthodox church gave the world the Bible, being infallible,
then why did the eastern churches reject or question the inspiration of
Revelation, then later accept it? Conversely, the east accepted as scripture
books that were later rejected. If the Orthodox church really is illuminated
by the Holy Spirit so that men can trust her as "God's organization", why
was she so wrong about something so simple?
3.. If the Roman Catholic church gave the world the Bible in 397 AD, then
why did many different versions of canons continue to circulate long
afterwards?
4.. If the Roman Catholic church gave us the Bible, why were the two
synods of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage, (397 AD) African councils, and not
initiatives of Rome?
5.. Since the synod Carthage in 393 AD stated, "But let Church beyond sea
(Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon", does this not prove that
Rome had no direct input or initiative in determining the canon.
6.. Since the two synods of Hippo (393 AD) and Carthage, (397 AD) were
under the control of what would later become the "orthodox church", how can
the Roman Catholic church claim they determined the Canon? Would not such a
claim be more naturally due the Eastern Orthodox church?
7.. If the Catholic church, "by her own inherent God given power and
authority" gave the world the Bible, why did she not get it right the first
time? Why did the Roman Catholic church wait until 1546 AD in the Council of
Trent, to officially add the Apocrypha to the Canon?
8.. Both Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox church leaders make the
identical claim that they gave the world the Bible. If both the Roman
Catholic and Orthodox churches make the same claim they gave the world the
Bible, why do they have different books in each of their Bibles? Whose
"church authority" shall we believe? Whose tradition is the one we should
follow?
9.. Provide a single example of a doctrine that originates from an oral
Apostolic Tradition that the Bible is silent about? Provide proof that this
doctrinal tradition is apostolic in origin.
10.. Provide a single example of where inspired apostolic "oral
revelation" (tradition) differed from "written" (scripture)?
11.. If you are not permitted to engage in private interpretation of the
Bible, how do you know which "apostolic tradition" is correct between the
Roman Catholic, the Orthodox and the Watchtower churches, for all three
teach the organization alone can interpret scripture correctly, to the
exclusion of individual?
12.. Why did God fail to provide an inspired and infallible list of Old
Testament books to Israel? Why would God suddenly provide such a list only
after Israel was destroyed in 70 AD?
13.. How could the Jews know that books of Kings or Isaiah were Scripture?
14.. If the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches both believes that the
scripture: "the church is the pillar and foundation of truth" means the
church is protected from error then: a. Why do they teach doctrine so
different that they are not even in communion with each other? b. How do you
account for the vast number of documented theological errors made by the
pope and the church in general?
15.. If the both the Orthodox and Catholic churches follow apostolic oral
tradition exactly, how come they teach doctrine so different, that they are
not even in communion with each other?
16.. Both Tertullian and Jerome gave a list of oral traditions that were
not found in the Bible. (Tertullian, The crown or De Corona, ch 3-4),
(Jerome, Dialogue Against the Luciferians, 8) Tertullian said of these
practices that "without any written instrument, we maintain on the ground of
tradition alone". These include, baptizing by immersion three times, giving
the one baptized a "drink of milk and honey" then forbidding the person from
taking a bath for a week, kneeling in Sunday mass was forbidden, and the
sign of the cross was to be made on the forehead. Jerome, echoing
Tertullian, said that these "observances of the Churches, which are due to
tradition, have acquired the authority of the written law". Why does the
Catholic church not immerse thrice and allow kneeling? Why do both the Roman
Catholic and Orthodox churches not keep any of these traditions, with the
exception of thrice immersion by the Orthodox? Why do Roman Catholic
churches today have knelling rails in front of every pew? If the "apostolic
tradition" was to make the sign of the cross on the forehead, why do both
Orthodox and Catholic churches change this to the current practice of the
sign on the chest and head? If extra-biblical oral tradition is to be
followed, then why don't the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches practice
all of these things?